Trusting in chariots and foreign powers

15 comments so far ↓

• 1 Michael // Aug 8, 2007 at 4:50 pm

  Ryan,

  I agree Israel’s leaders have not turned to God, neither have the people God knows as Israel, the seed of Jacob.

  However, the Bible never refers to the “nation of Israel” as being a group of people calling themselves Jews who live on about 1/5 the land God promised Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob and his seed alone are the people known as “Israel.”

  Those people are not the generic “Jews” who have decided to aliyah to the tiny piece of land in the middle east the UN ordained as Israel, not God.

  The prophecies of Ezekiel and Isaiah regarding God bringing Israel back into the land He promised them has not yet occurred. While it is true there exists a little piece of land with borders drawn on a map by UN officials, it is not the people God knows as Israel, occupying the land God gave them.

  They will not even understand what is occurred until the prophecy from Paul in Romans 11:25 comes to fruition and the “time of Jacob’s (Israel) trouble” is upon them.

  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

  Every man who lives in Toronto, London, Moscow, Miami Florida or any other place on this earth, who is a direct blood descendant of Jacob, is the “nation (gowy) of Israel.”

  God has promised never to uproot Israel again, but, Israel is not back in the land God gave them as a covenant in Genesis 15:18 to Abraham, 17:19 with Isaac and, 46:3 with Jacob (Israel), 430 years before the law. Gal. 3:17.

  That will not occur until AFTER the “time of Jacob’s (Israel) trouble” is over.

  In Christ Jesus,

  Michael

• 2 Ryan // Aug 8, 2007 at 6:17 pm

  Michael,

  I am afraid I could not disagree more.

  The “Jews” are mentioned many times in the Bible starting during the Babylonian captivity, since after the Assyrian invasion Judah was the only identifiable tribe remaining. The term “Jews” is used on nearly every page of the gospels, and refers to the “seed of Jacob” living in the Land of Israel at that time.

  There is no point in history where you can say the Jews from the New Testament, who were exiled from the land by the Romans, suddenly disappeared and a new group of people took over their ethnic label.

  I do believe that a day is coming that the LORD will reveal the identity of the other tribes, and they too will come home. But to deny that the Jews of today are in fact members of the biblical Tribe of Judah is to ignore history and invent your own.

  Furthermore, I believe the Nazi Holocaust was in fact Jacob’s Trouble, the depth of devastation for the Children of Israel, which then turned around and resulted in the reconstitution of Israel as a nation-state, as the Bible promised.

  I also find it odd that you refer to what you believe to be a coming devastation on the current nation of Israel as “Jacob’s Trouble,” yet refuse to recognize the Jews of Israel as Jacob’s seed.

  I don’t mean to sound critical. I respect you as a brother in the Lord, but I completely disagree with this line of theology and eschatology.

• 3 Michael // Aug 8, 2007 at 8:15 pm

  Ryan,

  While I respect what you are saying, I completely disagree as the term “Jew” is a generic term that is derived from Judah, or in the Hebrew “Yahuwdah.”

  God clearly stated in Exodus 33:1;

  And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:

  “Unto thy seed” meaning ONLY the progeny from Jacob who God renamed Israel in Gen. 32:28, 35:10.

  The bloodline and genetic “seed” from Israel (Jacob) is a nation of people, not a piece of land boundaried on a map that was set up by UN officials.

  You stated that the Nazi holocaust of WWII was the “time of Jacob’s trouble” whih is not so Ryan. If that wee so, then why are they not living under David as verse 9 states?

  That day is yet future, just as stated in Zechariah 13:8 & 9 just prior to Jesus’ return when 2/3 of Israel (Jacob’s seed) is destroyed and the 1/3 remanant is saved.

  I never stated that the Israelites who were taken captive by the Romans disappeared and a new people took their ethnic “label.” That is what the modern day “Palestinians” have done.

  The simple truth is not one place in the Bible does God refer to Israel as a piece of land inhabited by Jews. He stated Israel (Jacob’s seed) is His elect (Isa. 45:4).

  The “nation” (gowy) of Israel was the pure bloodline of Jacob that went into Egypt for 430 years and came out the “nation” God had ordained He would make of them in Gen. 46:3;

  And he said, I am God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:

  I do not refuse to recognize the people of Jacob’s seed. You obviously misunderstand what I am saying Ryan. The central point I am making is that ONLY those who are of the seed of Jacob, which encompasses ALL twelve tribes, since he and his seed are Israel, which means all the children seen in Gen. 46 going into Egypt.

  That means all the bloodline of Rueben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Napthali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph (Manasseh, Ephraim) and Benjamin.

  Not one other human being on this earth who claims to be a Jew and resides in the land mass named Israel by UN mandate is Israel in God’s eyes.

  Israel is a people of a bloodline from Jacob on down. And those people are not in the land God promised them since that land is almost 5 times the area now occupied by those who claim to be Jews, living in a nation the UN has defined on a map and calls Israel.

  I do not take your comments as critical Ryan, it is all a learning process and I just disagree that the Israel spoken to in God’s Word is the nation outlined on a map in the middle east by the UN. Genesis 15:18 sets the boundaries laid out by God as the land He covenanted to Israel and his seed, not UN Resolutions 181 and 273.

  In Christ Jesus,

  Michael

• 4 Ryan // Aug 8, 2007 at 8:23 pm

  Then I am confused about what you are trying to say. I agree that the Jews are not ALL of Israel. There are still 11 other tribes that need to be revealed, and God will do that in time. But are you denying that the Jews of today are the biblical Tribe of Judah?

  I also agree that the nation of Israel is a people first and foremost, the seed of Jacob. That is why the Jews remained a “nation” even during their centuries of exile. But the Bible also places great importance on the land itself that was given to that nation as an everlasting inheritance.

  As for the present boundaries - yes, they may have been outlined by the UN originally, but who is to say God was not making use of the UN for that purpose? He used Babylon for His purposes, and they were certainly no more righteous than the UN.

  And yes, the present-day boundaries are less than God proscribed, but remember that when Israel first took possession of the land, they did not immediately take it all. It was centuries before Solomon finally possessed almost all that God had promised to Israel.

  Israel is gaining these lands back, piece by piece, whether it likes it or not. In 1948, Israel did not possess Judea and Samaria. Today it does.

• 5 Michael // Aug 8, 2007 at 9:27 pm

  Ryan,

  What I am saying is not everyone who claims to be a Jew today is of the bloodline of Israel (Jacob) nor of the bloodline of the house of Judah. Even Scripture is clear on that in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 saying there are Jews claiming to be Jews who are, in fact, not Jews.

  And the nation of Israel is not just “first and foremost” of the seed of Jacob. If they cannot claim direct lineage back to Jacob through his twelves sons, they are not of the Biblical nation known as Israel.

  It was that seed, and that seed only, God promised the land to as clearly stated in Exodus 33:1, Deut. 1:8 & 34:4. Not every man who claims to be a Jew from the seed of Jacob is from that seed. Only God knows who they truly are.

  And I beg to differ with the statement that Israel is gaining back land. They just gave back Gaza and are presently in negotiations with Islamic terrorists (seed from Ishmael) to give back Judaea and Samaria.

  Israel (the seed off Jacob) will not be back in the land God promised them until AFTER Jesus returns after bthe “time of Jacob’s trouble” and we see Ezekiel 36 & 37 fulfilled when He rebuilds His people Israel, into the nation He intended them to be. His elect people, who will be His people and He will be their God, when He institutes the new covenant with them as seen in Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:8 & 12:24.

  Jesus is the mediator of that covenant and it will be after He returns.

  YBIC,

  Michael

• 6 Kenneth // Aug 9, 2007 at 1:04 am

  I believe it is silly to look at the events from the reestablishment of the Nation of Israel borders such as they are, Which are a fraction of what they were supposed to get anyway from the UN. The miraculous Victories under impossible odds. How can anyone with an open mind say GOD isn’t behind the establishment and preservation of the Current Nation of Israel! When your theology or interpretation doesn’t fit the scriptures or Obvious signs of GODS hand it’s time to dump or revise it! Better to loose it than become like the pharisees! An educated arrogant fool who can read the signs of the sky, but not the signs of the times! That’s a good way to find yourself in God’s way instead of on His side! Kenneth

• 7 Marsha Carol Watson // Aug 9, 2007 at 8:20 am

  We are not to “split hairs” here. The current leadership of Israel has rejected the God of the Bible. It is that simple. No one can talk their way out of the judgment they have brought about that will soon fall on them. All people will see and know that God is God, and He is sending judgment on those who have thrown His Word away, and have trusted in chariots and horses, and foreign powers.

  At the moment when the world least expects it, God will execute judgment on those in Authority both in Israel, and in other nations who have pushed for peace….Make no mistake, you who rule and reign the nations of the world….God will show His great displeasure with Your abuse and misuse of the Land and Chosen Ones of Israel. YOU CANNOT ESCAPE HIS WRATH! And, when it comes, you will know why judgment is falling on you…..You, who are leaders KNOW even now that you are in the wrong….and yet the spirit that is driving you has you bound….You are in chains and fetters….in Bondage to the devil himself…..”Be not deceived….God is not mocked! Whatsoever you sow, you will reap a Harvest from it”

• 8 Michael // Aug 9, 2007 at 1:59 pm

  Just a little information regarding where “Jews” live worldwide. Ezekiel 37 says ALL of Jacob and Judah will be gathered from the nations and verse 26 states:

  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

  That will not occur until after the time of Jacob’s trouble, in deference to your comment Kenneth, God has not yet gathered ALL of Israel into the land He gave them.

  From JewishGlobe.com

  Welcome to JewishGlobe.com A continually updated free service of information on Jewish communities around the globe . Find out about the past and present status of a jewish community anywhere around the globe. Simply use the drop down menu at the top right of the screen to jump to the region or country of choice.
  The worldwide Jewish population is 13.3 million Jews. Jewish population growth worldwide is close to zero percent. From 2000 to 2001 it rose 0.3%, compared to worldwide population growth of 1.4%.

    In 2001, 8.3 million Jews lived in the Diaspora and 4.9 million lived in Israel. Just about half of the world’s Jews reside in the Americas, with about 46 percent in North America.   (top)
  
    Approximately 37% of worldwide Jewry lives in Israel. Israel's Jewish population rose by 1.6% the past year, while the Diaspora population dropped by 0.5%.
  
    Europe, including the Asian territories of the Russian Republic and Turkey, accounts for about 12 percent of the total. Fewer than 2 percent of the world’s Jews live in Africa and Oceania.  
  
    Metropolitan Tel Aviv, with 2.5 million Jews, is the world's largest Jewish city. It is followed by New York, with 1.9 million, Haifa 655,000, Los Angeles 621,000, Jerusalem 570,000, and southeast Florida 514,000.
  
    In 2001, 8 countries had a Jewish population of 100,000 or more; another 5 countries had 50,000 or more. There is not a single Diaspora country where Jews amounted to 2.5 percent of the total population. Only 3 Diaspora countries had more than 1 percent. Gibraltar (24.0 per 1000), United States (20.1), Canada (11.9), France (8.8), Uruguay (6.7), Argentina (5.3), Hungary (5.2), and Australia (5.1)[1] had the highest ratios.
  

  In Christ Jesus,

  Michael

• 9 peter // Aug 9, 2007 at 5:47 pm

  Here is my quick over view and I think it shares the view of a few others…

  1. I believe not all of Israel is in the Biblical land of Israel as well as not all the people in the Land are Israelites whether of Levi, Judah or Benjamin… But none the less I do believe there are Israelites in the Land of Israel right now from the tribes of Levi, Judah, or Benjamin (Southern Kingdom)

  2. I believe the land of Israel today is the Biblical land… not in its fullness, but a start. Keep in mind that Israel has not existed for over 2000 years. I think its foolish to think that this is not the start or plan of Gods restoration of Israel. This is impossible in History… but possible for God.

  3. There are hundreds of end time prophecies that not only revolve around the people of Israel, but also the land. So if the land was not there and established, then the bible cannot be fulfilled.

  4. Remember Joel 3:2 I will gather the armies of the world into the valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will judge them for harming my people, my special possession, for scattering my people among the nations, and for dividing up my land.

  Notice the Land of Israel is being divided right now and that will bring judgements on the nations that participate in this dividing.

  my 2 cents

• 10 Kim Segar // Aug 9, 2007 at 6:08 pm

  Hi , I have read all the comments.. How sad that man made interpetations are more believed than what G-d has said. When is the church and the so called scholors going to realize that scripture interpets scripture ? When one does not have the whole truth, all they have is a lie. Anyone who cannot see Ezekiel and many others being fulfilled in our day is blind. Parables was taught. one is the good Samaritan story. the dying man on the rugged road. the first and second came by the third was the L-rd.who took the dying man to the Inn and paid for two days and said, when I come back I will pay you whatever else I owe you. a day is like 1000 yrs to G-d. Time is up, Jews are flocking home, and when HE stands on the MT of Olive, he will bring up the dead, pour pure water on them, give them a new heart and take a way their sin. and as it is written,,All Israel will be saved. Punish yes, just like us…gentiles. forget ? Never. soon Isa 17 will be fulfilled and HE IS NOT a Covenant breaker. We are all sinners saved by HIS GRACE. there is none righteous no not one. Only G-d is Righteous. A Jew is not one outwardly, and circumcision , which is outward of the flesh. A Jew is one of the heart in the sppirit and not the letter, whose praise is not of men but of G-d. Anyone who doesn’t believe all covernants of G-d are forever as it is written, best not believe in the one they call theirs ! He tells us He will never forget his first born, It is time to read His word for yourselves, not the way men scream it out ! Jews will forever own the Olive Tree. Remember scripture taken out of context is pretext ! What G-d did once He is doing again, the Old T reveals the New t. and the new T is concealed in the old T. as you call it. He is the living Torah, the living Sabbath forever. and He is coming to Israel, Jerusalem..Mt of Olive not New York City. as far as blindness, Israel is future, not far away and war is coming, and G-d will fight this last fight for His Chosen..as it is written. No one sits on the fence..you are for Him or against Him. not to forget those who are cursed who do not Bless the Jews..and not to forget He hates paganism and traditions of MEN. no matter how long you all excepted it an say you are doing it in the spirit..Like He tells us, seperate yourselves from the world and love NOT the things in the world. IT is plain how HE did it and will again when HE comes..and that is soon. He never does anything with out telling us first ! Kim

• 11 Ryan // Aug 9, 2007 at 6:15 pm

  Very well summed up, peter

• 12 Marsha Carol Watson // Aug 11, 2007 at 6:41 am

  Peter, I agree with you.

• 13 Anne // Aug 11, 2007 at 6:52 pm

  Amen! Marsha, I stand in agreement with post #7, for you have spoken boldly ‘the word of God’ this is the judgment and wicked rulers shall not escape.

  Oh I get so excited to be part of this Revelation. Our God has suffered long and waited in great forbearance to come to the time when He will look to His Right hand and send The King forth unto the peoples of all tribes and nations and tongues. and unto Israel, his beloved and unto the church, his body.

  WAKE UP….WAKE UP….WAKE UP… His Chariots are the clouds.
  Behold he comes, riding on the clouds
  shining like the sun, at the trumpet call… lift your voice…it’s the year of jubilee.. and out of Zion’s Hill Salvation Comes.
  Glory to the Lamb, Glory to the Lamb, Glory to the Lamb

• 14 Bill // Aug 19, 2007 at 2:57 pm

  18  And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
  19  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
  20  For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
  21  So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.
  22  For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.
  23  ¶And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
  24  And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
  25  Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
  26  The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
  27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
  28  For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
  29  And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
  30  By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
  31  And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
  32  ¶And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
  33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

• 15 Kathy // May 14, 2008 at 9:26 pm

  I agree with Peter. I also think scripture does indicate that modern Israel would be re-established in unbelief. So, we should not be surpised at that. God’s admonition to us, “who make mention of the Lord,” keep not silent and give Him no peace, day or night, until He establishes and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth. We, of the gentile nations are to rejoice that Israel is back in the land. We are supposed to be aware of and acknowledge in our conversations with others that, “He who scattered Israel has gathered her and keeps her as a shepherd does his flock.”

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